Need help overcoming hopefully my final stages of PFS

[Atticas]

Atticus....I wouldn't say that you're fully doing the routine. It's an all or nothing venture....not a piece meal thing and not modified. The results come about by fully immersing yourself in EVERY part of it.

This is a point of contention with myself and other guys that do one or two pieces, don't get the results they want, and then they go around saying that it didn't work. Well....of course it didn't work. You didn't do it. You did what you wanted to out of it....that's not doing the protocol. That's doing pieces of the protocol and it's not the same thing.

Maxout is fully immersed. HE is doing the protocol.

I'm just gonna be honest with you man, I do not honestly believe you have found the holy grail here lol I believe you found a good routine for yourself that certainly helps some get better and even full ends PFS for others, but to sit there and say "WELL, the reason you're not healed is because you didn't do exactly everything I said the way I said it!" when we as a community still don't completely understand everything PFS has done to our bodies (even the healed ones) or all the symptoms we all currently have (because some of us had different underlying problems that others didn't) comes off as a little arrogant/ignorant to me from a scientific perspective.

That being said, parts of your routine have helped me feel better, and I did appreciate your links to Supermanherbs (now LostEmpireHerbs) which holds a lot of high quality stuff that helped me out a lot. So i still thank you for that, but excuse me if I don't find every last iota of your routine necessary or even the end-all of what I'd need to recover. I did a juice/water fast and still do hold to a lot of the routine however, like meditation, hydrating, taking the herbs when I'm not on exogenous hormones, laying off alcohol (for the most part now), eating gluten/dairy/grain/corn/cane sugar-free, and getting decent sleep. Currently taking a break from lifting, but that'll be implemented back in shortly as well. (Btw, to anyone reading this, the only reason I'm so extreme about the diet are my food allergies... not saying CDN ever mentioned you had to go THAT extreme with it)

[Cdsnuts]

I'm just gonna be honest with you man, I do not honestly believe you have found the holy grail here lol I believe you found a good routine for yourself that certainly helps some get better and even full ends PFS for others, but to sit there and say "WELL, the reason you're not healed is because you didn't do exactly everything I said the way I said it!" when we as a community still don't completely understand everything PFS has done to our bodies (even the healed ones) or all the symptoms we all currently have (because some of us had different underlying problems that others didn't) comes off as a little arrogant/ignorant to me from a scientific perspective.

That being said, parts of your routine have helped me feel better, and I did appreciate your links to Supermanherbs (now LostEmpireHerbs) which holds a lot of high quality stuff that helped me out a lot. So i still thank you for that, but excuse me if I don't find every last iota of your routine necessary or even the end-all of what I'd need to recover. I did a juice/water fast and still do hold to a lot of the routine however, like meditation, hydrating, taking the herbs when I'm not on exogenous hormones, laying off alcohol (for the most part now), eating gluten/dairy/grain/corn/cane sugar-free, and getting decent sleep. Currently taking a break from lifting, but that'll be implemented back in shortly as well. (Btw, to anyone reading this, the only reason I'm so extreme about the diet are my food allergies... not saying CDN ever mentioned you had to go THAT extreme with it)

The truth is the truth and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that being said, the whole routine is based in science. All of it. Rather then making a brash decision such as this, if you would actually do everything that is prescribed for a long period of time, you would see that what I'm telling you is the truth.

You see, if part of my routine has made you feel better, as you've said, what makes you think diving in 100% won't make you feel even better? Logic would follow that it would.

I've been doing this for a long while my man. I'm saying this to you from personal experience. Whether you choose to believe it or not, is on you.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Good luck to you.

[5 alpha victim]

My opinion is that you either run the herbs, or run exogenous hormones in cycles. Not both simultaneously. If you guys want to use your time and experiment and see what happens, then go for it. I never used preg. to heal. That's not saying it can't help....mind you.

I can only speak for my experiences and the experiences of others that followed a similar path.

Hey man how's it going

Its clear that you advise to never cycle the herbs on a DHT prohormone cycle. It's also clear that the herb cycling is not advised if one was to take preg.

 I know that the 5a-DHP has potential but it's still new and we are kinda watching it unfold. I am curious to know what you think thus far about herb cycling while running a course of 5a DHP. I ask because I just dropped like  $350 at lost empire and once they arrive I'll be up to about fifteen or so of the twenty three recommended on your website. I'm trying to decide if I should hold off on starting to cycle them or if I should just start them now during this 5a DHP trial. I'm thinking maybe seeing that 5a DHP is not really a traditional exogenous hormone run?

[Cdsnuts]

Hey man how's it going

Its clear that you advise to never cycle the herbs on a DHT prohormone cycle. It's also clear that the herb cycling is not advised if one was to take preg.

 I know that the 5a-DHP has potential but it's still new and we are kinda watching it unfold. I am curious to know what you think thus far about herb cycling while running a course of 5a DHP. I ask because I just dropped like  $350 at lost empire and once they arrive I'll be up to about fifteen or so of the twenty three recommended on your website. I'm trying to decide if I should hold off on starting to cycle them or if I should just start them now during this 5a DHP.

I see no reason why you couldn't run the 5a-DHP with the herbs. It's mechanism of action is different then traditional exogenous hormones and will not be suppressive at all.

[5 alpha victim]

[QUOTE=Cdsnuts;52120]I see no reason why you couldn't run the 5a-DHP with the herbs. It's mechanism of action is different then traditional exogenous hormones and will not be suppressive at all.[/QUOTE

Awesome!
I'm going with that plan than.

I was also considering starting a thread to discuss anything related to info on your website..figured I'd hold off for a little while just in case anyone planned on doing that already and had their own ideas on how they where going to do it or what they planned on calling the thread ect ect ...

[Atticas]

The truth is the truth and you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But that being said, the whole routine is based in science. All of it. Rather then making a brash decision such as this, if you would actually do everything that is prescribed for a long period of time, you would see that what I'm telling you is the truth.

You see, if part of my routine has made you feel better, as you've said, what makes you think diving in 100% won't make you feel even better? Logic would follow that it would.

I've been doing this for a long while my man. I'm saying this to you from personal experience. Whether you choose to believe it or not, is on you.

You can lead a horse to water.....

Good luck to you.

I think most of it does make me feel better and would make most anybody feel better tbh, PFS or not, yet other parts I'm still questionable about, like the use of a pro-hormone and carb-backloading.

Would you be willing to share with me your reasoning/any research behind carb backloading?

.

- - - Updated - - -

Regardless though, you've inspired me a bit today. I had completely forgotten about the magnesium and B-complexes you had mentioned, so I just picked those up as well and am going to throw those into my routine now as well.

Basically, all I was saying was this man, until we really know how this all goes down, I think it's a little over-assumptive to act like this routine will rid anyone of PFS and that every little portion of it is completely necessary

[Maxout777]

I think most of it does make me feel better and would make most anybody feel better tbh, PFS or not, yet other parts I'm still questionable about, like the use of a pro-hormone and carb-backloading.

Would you be willing to share with me your reasoning/any research behind carb backloading?

.

I do carb back loading.....And just yesterday I had lunch with a family member who said, "I told my wife I needed to get with you and figure out what you've been doing over the last six months diet wise because it's obviously working when looking at you". That's all the proof I needed that it works.

Or you could just try it yourself and stick to it for a month and see where it gets you. Same with pro hormone usage...you said you didn't want to use it because you wanted people to think you're a "beast" all natural and no PEDs. Why do you give an honest fuck what other people think? I couldn't give two fucks if someone knew I was using PEDs normally, and ESPECIALLY given that I'm using them to get my life back. Why don't you just try it?

I'm not trying to be an ass my man, but some of these posts just scream that you're looking for reasons NOT to do something instead of just trying it for yourself. I find it really absurd that you're concerned about carb back loading and using pro hormones yet you'll use alcohol all during your attempted recovery knowing it's a powerful hormonal and neurosteroid modulator. Doesn't make much sense to me, but just my .02.

Don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to give you a little tough love to maybe put you on the right path going forward. Libido is the HARDEST thing to get back for most and you're already doing fine in this department. Six months of religious discipline to this protocol and you'd probably never have to mention PFS again bro.

[Cdsnuts]

I think most of it does make me feel better and would make most anybody feel better tbh, PFS or not, yet other parts I'm still questionable about, like the use of a pro-hormone and carb-backloading.

Would you be willing to share with me your reasoning/any research behind carb backloading?

.

- - - Updated - - -

Regardless though, you've inspired me a bit today. I had completely forgotten about the magnesium and B-complexes you had mentioned, so I just picked those up as well and am going to throw those into my routine now as well.

Basically, all I was saying was this man, until we really know how this all goes down, I think it's a little over-assumptive to act like this routine will rid anyone of PFS and that every little portion of it is completely necessary

Lol....Dude....you're completely missing the point.

If you've been following me since Propecia help, then you would know there is nothing assumptive, or over assumptive about what I am telling you. I simply state THE TRUTH.

What I'm telling you is based in experience of myself and many others who have recovered. Every single aspect of this protocol exists for a reason and has been tested thoroughly. The fact you choose not to believe that says alot about your mindset. I always found it amazing that someone would rather argue and look for reasons why something won't work, as opposed to the other way around? Especially when there has been nothing but positive outcomes to people who have committed 100%....not 80....not 90.....100%

I'm not going to spoon feed you the reasons these things are required. All of that information can be found on my site, or on the web in general. Google is your friend. That being said, I would support you should you decide to go all in. It's alot harder then most guys can bare, but the ones that do always make it out the other side. That's why you have guys doing this part and that part.....they just can't get the whole thing together. It's alot in the beginning, but becomes part of life the longer you stick to it.

And OF COURSE the program would make EVERYONE feel better. Do you know why? Because these principals are based in natural science. That's why they work. They can't, not, work.

Ultimately it's your decision. like everything in life. You get what you put in. There is no free lunch. You can stay stuck with the symptoms you have, or you can get rid of them for good and feel better then you ever have before in your life. It's completely up to you.

[Atticas]

I do carb back loading.....And just yesterday I had lunch with a family member who said, "I told my wife I needed to get with you and figure out what you've been doing over the last six months diet wise because it's obviously working when looking at you". That's all the proof I needed that it works.

Or you could just try it yourself and stick to it for a month and see where it gets you. Same with pro hormone usage...you said you didn't want to use it because you wanted people to think you're a "beast" all natural and no PEDs. Why do you give an honest fuck what other people think? I couldn't give two fucks if someone knew I was using PEDs normally, and ESPECIALLY given that I'm using them to get my life back. Why don't you just try it?

I'm not trying to be an ass my man, but some of these posts just scream that you're looking for reasons NOT to do something instead of just trying it for yourself. I find it really absurd that you're concerned about carb back loading and using pro hormones yet you'll use alcohol all during your attempted recovery knowing it's a powerful hormonal and neurosteroid modulator. Doesn't make much sense to me, but just my .02.

Don't take this as an attack, I'm just trying to give you a little tough love to maybe put you on the right path going forward. Libido is the HARDEST thing to get back for most and you're already doing fine in this department. Six months of religious discipline to this protocol and you'd probably never have to mention PFS again bro.

Meh... I guess I could try the pro-hormone at this point (after a month or two). I'm already on preg, 5a-DHP, and DHEA so I guess that natural dream is already out the window. My big thing was just wanting to be able to let others know any type of muscular gains I have made with my body I would have made naturally. It's hard for people starting up into fitness these days to figure out who is legit and who is absolutely wasting your time when you've got average looking guys with tons of knowledge about fitness and jacked looking guys who jump on steroids and barely know the principals of what they're actually doing in the gym or nutrition wise. I've wanted for a long time to be that guy that no one had a doubt about... that was why I held off for so long, but now that I've already ruined that, I may as well do what I need to do to get fully better...

Oh yea, and my reason for holding off on carb backloading I think was just that it's already hard enough for me to try and fit all the calories I need per day to gain weight in throughout the ENTIRE day with my annoyingly fast metabolism... trying to cram in huge portions at night would probably make me vomit on the regular.

While we're on the subject though, there's the fact the guy who originated the diet plan actually denounced it:

John Kiefer Admits Carb Backloading Is Wrong | Fit'n'Flexed

And the fact that there were holes in what was being stated as scientific fact:

Does Carb Backloading Work? A Scientific Review | Muscle For Life

Although I appreciate what CDN has done, his website and his help (and I think he's a smart guy!!!).... he has still failed to show me any studies that convince me it's "great for hormones" and worth throwing up over every night.

[Cdsnuts]

Meh... I guess I could try the pro-hormone at this point (after a month or two). I'm already on preg, 5a-DHP, and DHEA so I guess that natural dream is already out the window. My big thing was just wanting to be able to let others know any type of muscular gains I have made with my body I would have made naturally. It's hard for people starting up into fitness these days to figure out who is legit and who is absolutely wasting your time when you've got average looking guys with tons of knowledge about fitness and jacked looking guys who jump on steroids and barely know the principals of what they're actually doing in the gym or nutrition wise. I've wanted for a long time to be that guy that no one had a doubt about... that was why I held off for so long, but now that I've already ruined that, I may as well do what I need to do to get fully better...

Oh yea, and my reason for holding off on carb backloading I think was just that it's already hard enough for me to try and fit all the calories I need per day to gain weight in throughout the ENTIRE day with my annoyingly fast metabolism... trying to cram in huge portions at night would probably make me vomit on the regular.

While we're on the subject though, there's the fact the guy who originated the diet plan actually denounced it:

John Kiefer Admits Carb Backloading Is Wrong | Fit'n'Flexed

And the fact that there were holes in what was being stated as scientific fact:

Does Carb Backloading Work? A Scientific Review | Muscle For Life

Although I appreciate what CDN has done, his website and his help (and I think he's a smart guy!!!).... he has still failed to show me any studies that convince me it's "great for hormones" and worth throwing up over every night.

The first article you posted is not a working link. And John Kiefer has never denounced his carb back loading plan... Ever

Secondly, you can pretty much find any article to suit your preference on the internet. What counts is Real World experience and the results of other people, myself included. Why don't you try Googling carb back-loading success stories instead? Carb back-loading works. There are plenty of guys on this site alone that use it with great success. Check out the lifelog of scope on this site. That's just one of them.

Keep looking for reasons why you shouldn't do things, and you'll find them. I'm done entertaining this train of thought as it's pointless.

You get what you put into this program. You put half in, you'll get half back.

Tony Robbins has a great quote..." Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and start getting excited about what can go right."

Good luck to you.

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