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When done correctly the backloading will only aid in quickening your recovery. And don't worry about the sorghum, unless you enjoy eating it? Backloading with white rice, potatoes and other non glutinous grains will be just what the doctor ordered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Well I'm on it then doc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Doctors have been useless to me so far, so you're litterally my PFS doctor right now hahah. I just want to reiterate how appreciative I am for the work you do here. I know I keep repeating it but I have been raised to be grateful and I have no idea what I would've done without this place.
Glad you're finding it useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
And thank you.
Ran out of pine pollen, so I ordered some more from LEH, and a cheap brand from Amazon to wait while the good stuff arrives.
Ever since making the switch on Thursday night, tinnitus has risen up considerably, and mood and libido are really down. Is the cheap brand better than nothing or should I wait until I get the good stuff?
It's like I'm taken 5 steps back on all aspects, it's hard to stay composed but gotta keep pushing. As I heard Maxout say, not much traffic along the extra mile.
Don't know if it's because I'm running out of PP, but I am in a huge downswing right now. Mood, libido, sensitivity, tinnitus, anhedonia; everything is bad. I have a hard time forgiving myself for taking that poison, and I can't wrap my head around the fact that a single pill damaged me like that. I thought I was making quick progress, but it seems no one escapes from the zigzag pattern. A few days ago I reported feeling 110% mentally, and now I don't see the point. I really try my best, but despite reading recoveries, my hope is crushed and I fear this thing might drown me.
I will stop logging in here for a while. I wanted to accurately describe my journey, but I see that documenting my lows does no good to this forum or me. This place radiates positivity and deserves better than that.
I will keep up with the protocol 100% as I have done, keep pushing guys, much love
Remember how good you felt a few days ago, that alone tells you what you can achieve, you’ve done it already. Things usually happen this way with feeling better then feeling worse before returning with a higher baseline, it’s part of the process bro, trust that process. Forgive yourself for what you didn’t know, hindsight is 20/20, work to nurture yourself with what you know you can do now. You got thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
This^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by PashaSolid
Whatsup losers, I'm back
Running out of pine pollen really fucked me up and I had to regroup. Lesson learned: I ordered 3 megadose bags from LEH, and added Mucuna and Horny Goat Weed to my rotation (binned maca, so currently cycling 9 herbs).
Sorry for my last negative post and going MIA, it was a nasty downswing. From now on I will keep it positive here, but I'll still describe downswings after the fact to keep an accurate picture.
Spent a lot of time reading the threads of the OG's around here (maxout, jacknap, mastermal, xxnaeski, ricktheruler, turnover). Great guys and inspiring stuff. It feels good reading that even these guys had big moments of doubt, but still ended up making it through. I can be of these guys. If any of you legends are reading this thread right now, thank you.
I honestly must've read over 50% of the forum so I feel like I'm good knowledge wise, and now it's all about applying it on a regular basis.
I have now restabilized to where I was before running out of PP. Mentally I'm good, and I sleep like a baby (added glycine and magnesium before bed, it's a killer). But I still don't completely feel like myself. I think it's because of my low libido: I used to be cocky and always partying (way) too hard. Since I have low libido and don't party anymore, it's like a part of my identity is missing. This while come in due time. Probably at the end. Downstairs, still dealing with lowered libido, premature ejaculation and girth loss. All in due time.
As a tribute to Ricktheruler's thread, I will periodically post gym pictures to track my progress. I'm only beginning my 3rd month, I'm reallyyyy curious to see what it's gonna be like when I stay steady on the protocol. Also considering doing a cycle this summer.
2021 is Get Better season, and hopefully 2022 will be Hide Your Daughter season
Attachment 1604
One of the best things you could have done for yourself was to do what you did in reading the forum. That is HUGE and gives you an idea, a theme, you can see the same thing in almost every case. Yes, the big doubt, where you think nothing working after putting in all the time, effort and money. But YES.....that is how it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
I did notice thought you said "still" don't feel like yourself........NO SHIT!!! You have pfs dude. That's why you're here. Listen, you know what you have to do now and you know that it's gonna take time and consistency.
But seriously, good for you in taking that time for yourself and your healing. It is something that EVERY new guy here should do. It would answer 95% of the same questions that are asked over and over again and not only that, over time, a picture develops and the fact that everybody who does one kind of thing has issues, the ones who jump in 100%, don't have to ask a lot of questions because they read, THOSE are the ones who heal quickest with the lest amount of issues.
Good on you man.
Thank you, yes I figured it could only help. And yes, I just meant that although I feel good mentally, I still don't consider myself 100% mentally recovered because of the downstream psychological consequences of my physical symptoms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
I'm the guy from Quebec by the way, we chatted a bit on the WhatsApp group a couple weeks ago. Good intentions there but I ended up quitting the group, the pharmaceutical experimentations gave me PH vibes and made me anxious. I'll focus on the protocol and go all in.
Quick question. I'm considering doing a UltraHard cycle in July, but I want to make you I do it right. I read you recommend 3 months on protocol beforehand (which I will have), but I don't know if I should do another fast. I only started my journey with a 5 day juice feast for financial reasons and you told me it was fine, but I could do a water fast if you think it could help. I'm starting my job next week so I would start it real soon.
I'm pretty sure the constant worry and stress are actually symptoms of PFS themselves due to the non existent allopregnanolone which then fries the GABA. So you just have to ignore whatever negative thoughts your mind's telling you and keep going.
Anyway, just keep going and don't look back. Once you get to the point where life's livable again, you'll never stop after that. Took about 8-12 months for me. Now I feel better than pre PFS most days, and I was a severe case. I'm not real sure why, but the incredible confidence I felt on 4-Andro has pretty much stayed even though I stopped the cycle a bit over three weeks ago. Needless to say, I've been having the time of my life. LOL
You got this brother!
Thanks for the encouragements. I must've read your whole thread 3x you legend. Glad that you're good man.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaleksi
I'm 5 months postfin, 2 months on protocol, and at my actual baseline life is definitely livable. Things can change quickly tho. I made good progress so far but my remaining stuff is sexual so I'm buckling for a potential 2 year.
That's great news regarding your latest cycle. I am looking forward to running UltraHard for my 1st cycle this summer. I am just worried about it crushing my estrogen, as my latest bloodtest in March showed it was already way too low. I read that you can stack UltraHard and Alpha4 to mitigate this, however I have never seen someone run this combo as their first cycle.
I wouldn't use Alpha Four on your first cycle. PFS guys usually have too much E to begin with (while Saw P guys often have low E as SP blocks aromatase as well as 5ar) so adding in the Four would increase it even more and potentially cause more issues. I learned that the hard way, it got to the point where I was super emotional and cried every few hours lol. Still an amazing cycle overall once I figured out the sweet spot regarding dosages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
I'd stick to the Ultra Hard and maybe keep it at 3 pumps per day to avoid lowering E too much. You can always add the Four at a later date if you feel you need it.
Good. Things are going as planned.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaleksi
Man.....you are gonna not believe how good you can feel.
It get's better man.....I'm telling you.
You will soon realize how "domesticated" all of us have become. You won't just realize it, you'll feel it. You're going to feel vital and alive and unplugged from the matrix and you're almost going to feel sorry for everyone else.......
You'll see what I means someday SOOn.
Solid^^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaleksi
He's been putting in mad work..........he'll be making a recovery post soon. That's how it happens!Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Ok....so here is where I'm thinking of changing an area in regards to dosing. For the guys that got blood tests and KNOW their E is low then running the four would be fine, even though typically I don't recommend it until you're in several cycels. Subsequently your tissues are starved of DHT as well, so if we have a bunch of guys with bloods, even though I never used them, that would be helpful considering your first PH cycle. But I ususally don't recommend a PH cycle until someones been on the protocol for at least three months. Because in that time if you're doing everything right, things will be more balanced.
Use yourself as a guinea pig. You may help alot of guys. If you KNOW your E is low, then run a cycle of Alpha Four at three pumps daily for four weeks and see how you feel. Then log it here for everyone to see. The four has androsterone in it too so it covers all bases.
Honestly, I'm damn curious to see.
I'd be willing to try it. What would the potential negative sides? I read that it has almost the same amount of androsterone (100mg vs 125mg), and 4-DHEA instead of Epi. Any idea why the UH lists libido benefits but not the Alpha Four? I guess it would still help indirectly by reactivating 5ars, but I'd be curious to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Honestly this whole PFS mess has made me very health anxious, so although I'd be willing to try it, I would just like to know the risks and what to expect.
I will do a bloodtest in June to verify that my E is still low.
This is not something that you even need to be focusing on now stressing yourself un-needlessly. You gotta be on the protocol for a few more months man. There is a lot to learn and make habit in this first couple months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Deleted my reply by accident while updating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
The situation doesn't stress me at all honestly, I'm just looking to learn more about it to make an educated decision. If I end up taking a path less traveled by with Alpha Four as a 1st cycle, I just wanted to know what it implied. If I start the cycle on July 1st I would have 4 solid months of protocol behind.
I also need to somewhat plan it in advance, since Covid fucks the international shipping. It took a month for my LEH order to arrive, so it might be the same delay again. I could always wait a bit longer for my cycle, but I remember reading a couple guys like Turnover saying if they could do it again, they wouldn't wait and they'd hop on a cycle after 4 months.
Protocol is definitely a habit at this point. I just need to add regular sun (welcome to Quebec) and manage to make my Bathmate work. Apart from that I'm golden. Now that I have my head and can enjoy my day, I'm just buckling up until the rest goes away. Every small improvement noticed is motivation to keep it up 100%.
That was a good response. I got you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
And Quebec......damn...you guys get like one month of summer, lol. Beautiful country though. I would go on a ski trip to Tremblant every year for about 20 yrs or so when I was younger. That's where I learned to ski. Cold AF in January.....-40...ever try to ski in -40? Don't.....lol.
Yeah if "Freezing the boys" was part of the protocol I would probably already be recovered. The winter temperature is brutal but it really makes you appreciate the summer. The vibe in Montreal is crazy during summer. People speak english and french and there's this mix between european and american culture. Ahhh don't get me started I love my city hahahQuote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
I'll do a bloodtest soon and if my E is still low I will order some Alpha Four and run a cycle in July. If my E is in range I will order UltraHard.
Hey figured I would an update. Won’t do those frequently but it’s gonna serve as a reminder when I’m in a downswing. It will also give new guys an idea of the progression, rather than simply posting a recovery post at the end.
In the last week I hung out with 3 different group of friends, and honestly mentally it felt like prePFS. I was relaxed, cracking jokes and had fun. When people asked why I wasn’t drinking I just said it’s because I’m on antibiotics for the summer. People didn’t give a fuck.
Coopersock’s recovery post really resonated when I was with my friends this afternoon: even if I have PFS, I can have fun with people. Life doesn’t end with PFS, and PFS seems like a much bigger deal when you stay at home focusing on it. Covid clearly doesn’t help, so I would advise people to just dive into plans and hobbies, it really makes you understand that although you are clearly not where you need to be, you are still closer to it than you think.
And damn, the protocol sure works physically lol . One of my friend sees a girl from Tinder and she came with 6 of her friends, we spent the afternoon at the park. I have always been in good shape but I never received as much compliments. Legit had a girl walk up to me to tell me I’m her type, asking if I squat and saying she loves that I also train my legs. Not saying that to brag or whatever, but just to reinforce the fact that life goes on despite PFS and that good things can happen and I have to appreciate every small thing. Was also vibing with a gorgeous blonde, I preferred chasing her than the other girl. I might have made a mistake tho, she applied tanning lotion on my body, is it fine? First time ever using this stuff, it didn’t contain parabens but maybe it’s still not good protocol-wise. My mom used to tell me it was really bad for your health. I hope it fine lol.
In the same vein, I was wondering if any OG’s had advice regarding having sex for the first time after PFS. I am at this weird spot where I don’t really have ED, and libido wise I guess I would like to have sex 1-2x/week. However the texture of the skin is still a bit weird, I feel the orgasm coming way too fast, and I don’t know if I have enough libido/mental arousal to get non-contact erections in a real-life situation. I frequently read that getting a ‘’practice girl’’ can be beneficial for recovery, so I would be curious to know how to tackle this situation. The 2 girls from this afternoon would be perfect practice girls lol, they are from British Columbia and spending the summer here.
Tinnitus is the only symptom I am afraid I might never fix, as I read many people keep it. I could live with it if it's the only thing, it got lower for the last 2 months but I'm striving for greatness so I'd like to kill it.
Looks like you’re coming along good my guy. And right here from Ottawa, Vancouverish girls don’t come here often (at least in my city), so I’m saying go for it. I’m in also in a similar spot, where ED isn’t as big of an issue, but have low libido, that weird rubber texture, and as you said, a weird feeling that develops as you’re about to go, but Ima say go for it as it will also help build confidence, you don’t go from get better season to hide your daughter season overnight. Get your feet in the water - the earlier the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
As for the tinnitus, as I told you in chat, prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Try to delve into it, so as to prepare for living with it for the rest of your life, but also doing everything for it to go away. I think it will.
On a personal note, though, my brother I fucking feel you. I’ve been treating this as some sort of mandatory military time or prison sentence, but we mustn’t do that. If the opportunity presents itself... I say we go for it. Fun. Girls. As long as it’s in or doesn’t mess up something on the protocol.
Yeah mindset is everything with this condition, that why this forum's vibe is such a lifesaver.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOPE
I guess I'll try to go for it. It's just gonna be weird going into a sexual encounter and not knowing if you're gonna perform/want it. Oh well. Because even though everything ''works'', I have no primal urge to have sex. What a weird life, will keep this thread updated lol.
Bad news. I want my log to reflect my journey so letsgo.
Got overzealous on Monday and rubbed one out , and 2 days later and I still feel like absolute shit; anxiety, anhedonia and suicidal thoughts are back. Can't believe 1 pill wrecked my sexuality, personnality and sanity. Lockdown is being lifted here and it makes me feel even more abnormal. Started a new law internship and I don't give a shit, I focus on my tinnitus allday long. Normally I love starting a new job and meeting people.
But this downswing is all my fault. From now on, I am going on the ultimate Nofap. 50 years from now, people will be talking about Outlaw's legendary no fap. I am keeping every ounce inside until my balls are tickling my ankles.
Even if I'm in a big downswing, I am still confident I will recover mentally and sexually. The only doubt killing me is the tinnitu. Turnover said his 1st cycle killed his, I really hope it does the same for me. It got fairly lower for 2 weeks in March but it never completely left. I can always hear it during the day no matter what I do. I also have intermittent cracking ear canal and crunching noises when I move my jaw sideways. I am beyond scared it might never leave.
It's the "downswing doubt" talking to you. I think I just coined a new phrase......anyway, when you're in this type of mindset, everything sucks and it feels like the end of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
All I can add is this.....you're worrying about something that may or may not happen. Ask yourself, does this worrying serve any purpose? Is it going to help me in any way? NO. Let it go. Will the tinnitus go away? Maybe, maybe not, but I can tell you if that is the only thing that you're dealing with concerning pfs, you're LUCKY.
I'm telling you now, this is how it's gonna be in your head for the whole ride. So you have to get used to dismissing unhealthy thoughts. Otherwise they get a foothold in and grow. You gotta nip that shit in the bud.
Not that it's a contest, but as far as pfs goes, you didn't get that destroyed, so for that, you should have gratitude. Dealing with some noise in your ears is like taking a walk on a nice sunny day compared to what could have happened to you.
BE THANKFUL. Live in gratitude. Study mindset and how it effects EVERYTHING.
Regardless, use this log to write whatever you want. It helps to get it out. And it will help others coming in behind you because when they read your thread and subsequent recovery, it will give them the push they need to keep going.
Breathe man, breathe.
Hey thanks for taking the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Downswing doubt is the perfect term. When I feel good and I look back at my downswings, I can't understand how skewed my mindset was.
I just have a hard time with the tinnitus because it's potentially permanent, and I associate that adjective with a lot of anxiety. However, I think if I were 100%, I wouldn't really care about the T. What kills me is the combination of PFS + Tinnitus + too much time to think.
I totally agree some have it worse. However I still feel unlucky in some way, as I got hit with sexual/mental sides and tinnitus from a single 1mg pill.
But you're right, I gotta march forward. As my brother tells me, there's a recovery date somewhere on the calendar, and I have to do everything in my power to avoid having it pushed back.
Going to my bloodtest tomorrow, will order some Alpha Four if my E is still low.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I will buckle up for the ride and report when things improve.
Your brother sounds wise....and he's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
It is crazy how it can disrupt our reality. But just knowing this, is the key. That, and doing the right things consistently.
Got my bloodtest prescription, I will take the test this week and order the right prohormone depending on my E level (Ultrahard if high, AlphaFour if low). However I wanna do things right and I have a few questions.
I started my juicefeast on March 2nd, so July 2nd will mark 4 months on the protocol, which should be good. However, there are certain variables that make me doubt whether I can consider this an adequate 4 months:
- my juicefeast was only 5 days (couldnt
afford more)
- I ran out of Pine Pollen in April, causing a
small crash
- I masturbated 7 times since starting,
occasionnaly causing mini crashes
Given all of this, would you guys still recommend to start a cycle on July 2nd? Aside from that I'm golden. Might seem stupid but I just wanna make sure everything is good to go before I take the plunge with the prohormones.
Hey while I wait for an answer I figured I'd give an encouraging update.
I feel depressed that 1 pill completely fucked me. I feel depressed that lockdown is lifted and regular life resumes. I feel depressed that my libido is low, my dick is rubbery and that I may keep tinnitus forever.
But I'm gonna beat this crap. I'm still a student, I have all the time in the world to do the protocol, I have enough money to buy supplements and food, I have all my friends encouraging me, and I have the will to never stop this protocol until I'm perfect. If others recovered I sure can.
The legendary nofap is still going strong
Just keep reminding yourself of the potential within you and how close you are to releasing that potential.
Highly, highly recommend getting test, estrogen and DHT checked using LCMS and not ECLIA. It can vary wildly. Estrogen using LCMS is how I found out mine was low when ECLIA showed me in mid range.
You're thinking into it too much. You'll be fine to start the cycle. Something in the right direction is always better then nothing.
Damn another absolute legend commenting on my log.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
Thanks Maxout, I'll ask for that. The normal test already showed low E so maybe it's even lower.
Sounds good. I really wanna recover as fast as possible so I tend to overthink a lot of shit, gotta watch out for that I guessQuote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Get better season hasn’t finished brother. Keep going, and hide your daughter season will start knocking on your door.
Currently back at the lowest I've ever been. In the last 6 months I managed to almost forget who I used to be. Looking back at memories hurts; I barely relate to them, and I'm afraid to never live like that anymore. If I could take a time machine and not swallow that 1 pill I would cut my arm for it.
Been crying for 2 hours straight, and told my mom I'm afraid I might leave her and my brother one day. Never thought I would ever entertain such dark ideas. My brother is amazing with me, but I still feel alone with friends and family, and I even feel alone here sometimes, where everyone seems to be doing good (although I know it's not the case).
These downswings are rough. I'm always quick to write paragraphs when things go well, but fuck it I'll write when things get ugly too. When I recover people will see the ups, the down, and the final destinstion.
I feel all alone in a big crowd. Huge thanks to CD and the guys around here. Although I would much rather never have set foot in anything PFS related, it has made me meet wholesome human beings from around the world momentarily sharing the same pain as me. When I recover I hope that I can travel the world, and take a beer with some of you. I am in the lowest low but I'll see you on the other side. One day I will be talking to my wife on my porch, looking at my yard's green grass, thinking of how muddy it used to be.
Like I said....you're going to have these constant up and downs. You gotta know how to ride em out. Entertaining the bad feelings rather then just feeling them, letting them be, and pass, is going to be huge for you. You can't go down the thought of how awful things are when they are awful. Just stay in the moment and move forward, minute by minute. Don't dwell on your negative thoughts. You're creating these mental barriers by doing so.
I'm definitely noticing that masturbation has a huge effect on my symptoms. Currently been abstaining for 17 days and symptoms are doing better: mentally I'm fine (orgasm makes me lose my concentration, emotions and sense of being), tinnitus and ear pressure is considerably down (which gives me hope it could go away), and sexually I'm still at the same place (not much libido, premature ejaculation getting a bit better when edging, rubber skin only when I orgasm).
Other good news is I got my blood results, everything is in mol/L. "Previously" refers to my bloodtest 3 months ago.
FSH: 2 UI/L (range 1-18, previously 2.2)
LH: 4.2 UI/L (range 2-12, previously 3.8)
Estradiol: 77 pmol/L (95-223, previously <60)
Prolactin: 11.3 ng/ml (<19, previously 6.7)
Thyroid: 2.8 mU/L (0.35/4.5, previously untested)
Cortisol: 510 nMol/L (145-620, previously untested)
So we can see that my estradiol moved from <60 to 77. However it is still below equally below the range. CD, is running the alpha four still the plan?
I will receive results for T and DHT in a week. Do I need those numbers to assess my choice of prohormone, or can I order the Four solely based on my below range E?
Also noticed that my prolactin nearly doubled. I know bloodtests don't mean much but what could it mean? Anyways, I still feel overall better every month so I don't make a huge deal out od it.
Thanks guys, keep it up, one day that grass is gonna be really green
You don't need them, but they could prove useful in this aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
I would never suggest some one run the alpha four alone without having a DHT solo prohormone on the side, just in case. The point of these cycles is to help boost you along and help regenerate 5ar. That's why the cycles are DHT based not to mention that the DHT sensitive tissues have been starved because of 5ar inhibition.
I also suggest that the majority of cycles are DHT heavy. The four was always meant to be used as a stack, rather then a standalone. We want to focus on DHT, 5ar, not Test seeing as the enzymes needed to turn it into DHT have been compromised. The four just makes things a little better, added in proper amounts, which is different for everyone depending on their make up.
Hey gotchu regarding the importance of DHT heavy prohormones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
However I'm not sure if I understood your response, I was making a reference to this prior suggestion of yours to try AlphaFour as my 1st prohormone (for guys like me that knew their E was low).
Considering my E is still low, what do you suggest?
- Alpha4 with UltraHard on the side in case
- Just UltraHard
Thanks a lot