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I Said that I tried to take R andro!! Only 1 pill fucked me up in bed, and I am still in bed. I even cant Wake up and go to work...About the cleanse I already did it months ago before to start the protocol...So I tryed to take R andro now as suggested but I am seriously dead now..I am in bed from 20 hours, couldnt go to work this morning.
What did it do to you exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
2 days ago, I took 100 mg in the evening around 7PM.
Then I went out with friends for a drink (I drunk water).. the next morning I ws feeling better, more energy and more my self, a bit too much nervous/anxious but still fine.
Then this effect went off and started to feel letargyc (as Always), in the evening I started to feel pain,soring hands, back and legs...too much (I guess this is due to my already low estrogens)...then I went to bed and my body was feeling like 300kg heavy and soring all my muscles in my back and soring my hands...too much! I felt exausted, need to sleep and sleep and sleep, and it was the same Yesterday and this morning, I feel I just need to sleep sleep and sleep,no way...plus that feeling of costant anxious.
I just woke up now, I m going to eat something and go to the gym even if I still feel crap.
Don't go to the gym if you feel like crap. Rest and get better before you go to the gym.
You may have to build yourself up more with the herbs before going down this route then.
Thank you for the suggest, but I am going to the gym now cause I feel I need to move myself..I need to take out this anxious otherwise I will kick someone.
Thanks
I think we're done here with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
EVERYTIME, someone gives you a suggestion based on their own experience, you shut it down and do what you want to any way, then whine and complain about how bad you feel. I'm done listening to it.
This forum isn't the right fit for you. You would do better over at the others where people like to complain and not take advice.
We are NOT guessing here when we give out advice.....what don't you understand?
What did I do wrong? I tryed R andro as suggested and felt not good. I did follow the advises.. should i keep taking it anyway? I seriously felt no good. So now I m still on herbs and gym as usual. I always followed suggests you gave me. I dont want to be a finger in the ass, I did it what suggested.. probably not good for me at the moment. I am keeping doing the protocol...I would even use again R andro but wow, that was strong for me.
About gym today, it is fine, even if not feeling well I can do it and I know it will boost my energy up.. So I do it, it wont harm myself.
By the way I wont report anymore my bad feeling and keep silence about it so to dont bother anyone anymore.
See above. Fucking cleanse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
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Ok. I go for another cleanse, I did one already but I go for the second one.. lets see what happens. Thanks
I think the others might have missed this that you have already cleansed. It might be better just to try to build your body up after the cleanse now. I'm not sure doing a second one in such close succession to your first is a good idea - happy to be corrected by others.Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
Get on the herbs and give them some time to work. I really recommend giving the pine pollen powder another. Can you give it a few weeks and see how you go on it? It really is the best herb for our condition.
A second cleanse wouldn't harm. It was the recommendation based on his reaction to the R-Andro, which was the result of 1 of 2 things...
1) his body is still very toxic and a cleanse would therefore be beneficial
Or..
2) he is totally mindfucking himself and not giving himself a fighting chance.
In honesty, I suspect it's the second thing. But if he is sure it is the first, then a cleanse is the way to go.
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Here is no sense to think it s the 2nd one. I mean, I am following the protocol, only thing I admit I am skipping is the breath exercices. R andro was not fine for me at the moment and I felt it very clearly. If you prefer me to tell you that it s "all in my head" I can do it, but it s not.
I mean you said you felt better from it after you dosed it, androsterone doesn't have that long of a half life so to say you felt worse 24+ hours after you took a very small dosage (not including you felt much better after the dosage and the following morning) doesn't make much sense, you probably felt so called worse because you felt better after you took the initial dose and it wore off leaving you back to your PFS state. You need to take it continously and split it into two doses per day due to the half life.
Well, I dont know the reason, but no, I didnt go back to my "normal" state, I felt worse than normal. Your rational has a sense but I am guessing that maybe it left me with lower estro,just an ipotesys,could it be?
I'm going to ask you one more time... What is it that you're trying to get out of this forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
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You either need to cleanse for a long-ass time without any cheating, or do like three more months of herbs and protocol. Then try the prohormone again. But for now, drop the idea of the prohormone and please god stop asking about your estrogen.Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
Your estrogen isn't going to drop more than 24 hours after your initial dose. If it was estrogen related you would have felt it within two hours after taking the R Andro (if you truly want to believe if is even estrogen related in the first place), and on top of that you said you felt better after dosing it, which is when it is actually active, so I'm not sure your logic of being estrogen related even makes sense regardless. There are a million other things involved as well like carb, protein and salt intake that needs to be monitored but it sounds you are way too inexperienced to try a prohormone yet at this point though.Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
Well, I am considering cause I dont know..
I dont want to get out from this forum, I mean I am sorry if I do report something weird but that s what has happened with me... maybe there is somethig more going on ok...maybe I am crazy as hell and depressed and what else you prefer to add..I am not trying to argue and it is not my intention at all.
But you gave me enough suggests so I can start from what you suggested me and if you prefer you can avoid to give me more tips about it.
Thank you for the suggests.
You're not answering my question and it's starting to annoy meQuote:
Originally Posted by biatch
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You are right, I cant get anything since no one has the answer and it is normal that noones has.. So the only thing I can do is following the protocol and trying keep doing what the protocol suggests.
Thank you for helping, I will keep following the protocol.
Wrong. We have the answer. You just choose not to take it or it's not what you want to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
You have to follow this...Every. single. piece. Every day....day in, day out. It could take six months or two years or so, but you will get better.
You're manic. I understand, but you're here for a reason, so listen to what myself and others who are successfully following this tell you, and just fucking do it.
Whining and complaining does NOTHING but keeps you in the cyclical pattern of negativity.
And you did a cleanse....good for you. I did four extended water fasts of 21 days and a 45 day juice feast over the course of three or four years with no guidance. I'm not saying this to have a dick measuring contest. I'm telling you so that you can understand that just because you did one cleanse, you could easily do another one to great benefit to yourself.
If you're that bad off to where one pill of R andro made you stay in bed all day, you're pretty toxic and bogged down.
Don't take my word for it. RESEARCH, every single piece of what is recommended here so you understand WHY it's recommended.
Durantia was very skeptical in the beginning....do you know what he did....he read into each and every piece of the regimen to give himself piece of mind that what he was doing was worth it. You should do the same.
Nobody here wants to hear you whine. All these guys are struggling to get themselves back. Help out and join them. This place is about not only fixing yourself but doing it with comradery with other like minded individuals.
Stop bitching and get to work. Man up.
Ok.
Thanks
Hello guys.
First of all, as a man I want to apologize about my behavior of these last days.
I was crying as a pussy, so I hope I will have more credibility from now on. I got a bad period, I guess also because of the girlfriend I broke with.
Said this, I am on a down period.
R andro is not the answer for me at the moment cause I guess I need to build my body more before to use it, I want first to build up my testo more before to run it again.
My next steps will be as suggested: water fasting and then back to the herb's cycling.
As it is supposed to be, I had a full month where I could get it up at 100% and things were going to the right direction even if still having the libido issue, now things seems to be going down, so I will keep waiting for the next good moment.
I am also back on the cold showers now, cause after a strong flu I was skipping it.
See you in a while and apologize my behavior, it ain't Always easy for anybody and I will keep controlling myself more next time.
Thanks
Keep your head up and follow the protocol. Everyone here wants you to succeed!, negativity just won't help that. Good luck with your cleanse!
Hey Biatch,Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
Everything CD recommends makes sense if you research it.
Your body's reaction to Pro-Hormones is due to the positive effects fading as Tubzy stated
or you need more time cycling the herbs.
I'm no expert but I think you have to build up your testosterone with the herbs/diet first to have the
solid foundation for your body to absorb the pro-hormones and give you the best results.
If you don't see/feel the progress yet with the herbs then you should re-read the guidelines
for the regimen and follow them 100%.
Think of it like maturing into a man again. In nature you get testosterone first; then you get high DHT.
Don't try to do it backwards or skip steps. The body has a natural order to it.
The diet must also be in place 100%.
Stick to the regimen and results will come.
By the way downswing moment.. working for the up one.
It's a downswing bro, ride it out, I'm on one too. Just keep doing the right things and don't scare yourself and you'll be back on the up in no time
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Lets ride...
Since I reported a lot of negativity last week, (caused by panic) I would like to report that Yesterday was a "perfect day" regarding all sides, phisically, mentally, mood and sexually... So, yes, it's just a rollercoaster up and down for the moment but something is working back on the "real track of real life" and that makes me really happy and full of hope and wish to improve more and more...
That's great man, but don't allow yourself to get too high with it... remember that how you felt the other day will happen A LOT of times and you should take those steady and not panic when they do, doing so will make t affect you even more negatively.
Onwards and upwards!
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yes, I agree...just need to get used to it. Thanks.
You need to remember that PFS is literally an anxiety induced shit hole. Everything seems way overwhelming then it should be and trying new things sound like the scariest shit (I had this originally with caffeine, if I even thought of taking it my anxiety would sky rocket even worse, but once I had an idea of what was actually going in my body, that thought faded away and can tolerate more than I could ever now even prior to PFS), you literally need to tell yourself what is going with your body.Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
Once you start trying more and more stuff and seeing improvement it gets much easier once you actually understand what is going on your body. I.E. known that your GABA is severely impaired and that is causing your anxiety and know why its happening etc, that will make it much easier, instead of constantly guessing and assuming, which once again will lead to more anxiety
Hey Tubzy, how is your recovery going?Quote:
Originally Posted by TubZy
Guys, hello.
I don't know how to explaine and I don't know what has happened since 1 week, but seems like if something has tuned on... it's the whole week I am feeling wonderfull 80% of the time, energized, happy, focused, no brain fog and most of everything I am having multiple spontaneous erections coming up easily just by thinking or texting to girls.. I mean, I feel I "always" want to have sex and I have that libido and sensitivity down there I didn't experienced this clear from a long time...long time!
For sure I'm still not there and I hope things will keep moving this direction cause something seems have turned on..I hope I am not speaking too early but these days (1week) I'm touching the promised land..I remember just 8 days ago I badly crashed and I was layed in bed for 2 days with strong headace...now I am not speaking about I am 5% better, I am speaking I am "40% better" and I have no explanation how it could be that turned me on this way...Super happy at the moment and by the way I keep going the protocol (herbs,diet,cold shower,gym) and hope this is not only a short upwings.
Lets see what's next...
....one more thing, I am not tired at all and I never feel I want to sleep at night, I am not sleeping enough but I don't feel I need.
Well,.there is.one.thing I changed: I do cycle herbs as usual but I am also using high quantity of.cordyceps every day, maybe this mix gave me an extra boost.
What did you think was going to happen by following the protocol?Quote:
Originally Posted by biatch
You know exactly why you're experiencing this upswing. It's in direct relation to the work you've been putting in.
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is it gaba or is it allopregnanalone though or both? a buddy of mine experienced a pharmaceutical recovery by using hydrocortisone + remeron. now he just uses remeron which apparently upregulated allopregnanaloneQuote:
Originally Posted by TubZy
Allopreg is a positive modulator of GABA-A so allopreg (and THDOC) are not modulating GABA as they should be, i.e. in reference to stress, anxiety, sleep etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknap
The depleted neurosteroids is the source (from low 5AR I in the CNS), the GABA absence is just further down the chain.
Funny you brought up, Mirtazapine (remeron) is probably one of the last few things on my last that I haven't tried yet, it is pretty expensive. It does elevate neurosteroids pretty well and lowers adrenalin and pro thyroid, check out the links below. It is probably the only anti depressant "type" drug that I would consider trying (Peat considers it useful in certain situations, which I was surprised about) it has some similar benefits to androsterone (R-andro), but again I'm not condoning its use just like to show the research. Another member on Peat said they recovered using it.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...-others.15646/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...enaline.12425/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...ortisol.15626/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...chanism.16991/
Very good, don't really take much these days besides caffeine (increase neurosteroids), niacinamide (increase 5AR in CNS) and vitamin C (increase neurosteroids). Have some ups and downs but overall I seem to be improving despite not really changing my regimen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holistic
I've pretty much concluded with another member who developed a pretty well thought out theory that PFS seems to be mainly a depletion of 5AR I in the CNS most likely from a pituitary issue since many of us had severely low LH/FSH (which are pituitary hormones). Pituitary hormones positively regulate 5AR I. Since one of the pituitary hormones is oxytocin, which is definitely low in PFS people, next experiment is trying a few things that increase oxytocin which would increase 5AR I, oxytocin is highly correlated with dopamine too, which is known to be low in PFS.
Issue why increasing LH/FSH through HCG or clomid doesn't work or can temporarily help is that the downstream effects of those drugs raise androgens (T/DHT) which would then decrease 5AR I making you feel worse again, that is why it is so tricky. 5ARI and II act on inverse relationships, meaning increasing DHT directly or T, will cause 5ARII to increase but will lower 5AR I and vice versa, basically proving that the condition is stemming originally in the CNS. The reason why androsterone (R andro) helps is because its acts both in the CNS (5AR I) and serum (5AR II) meaning it acts on both enzymes even though it is claimed to just "increase" DHT. Androsterone can also positively modulate GABA-A and can serve as a precursor to allopreg.
The most common symptom I got from taking proviron/DHT gel in the past was my libido would go up and my body composition would change positively but would shoot my anxiety and mental symptoms through the roof, which makes absolute sense now since 5AR I is dropping even lower. Let me also state that prior to ever taking finasteride either proviron or DHT based things never gave me those mental "side" effects before.
Differential regulation of steroid 5alpha-reductase isozymes expression by androgens in the adult rat brain. - PubMed - NCBI
"The gene expression of 5alpha-R type 2 is under the positive control of T and DHT. The gene that codes for 5alpha-R type 1 is not constitutive, because its expression is negatively regulated by T and DHT."
High dose vitamin C increases oxytocin along with neurosteroids, another option we just found out about the probiotic L. reuteri which can greatly increase oxytocin. So hope to have some updates soon.
"The activity of the PAM enzyme system is dependent upon vitamin C (ascorbate), which is a necessary vitamin cofactor. By chance, sodium ascorbate by itself was found to stimulate the production of oxytocin from ovarian tissue over a range of concentrations in a dose-dependent manner.[21] Many of the same tissues (e.g. ovaries, testes, eyes, adrenals, placenta, thymus, pancreas) where PAM (and oxytocin by default) is found are also known to store higher concentrations of vitamin C".[22]
He presented enough evidence to make a pretty good point along with personal experiences. Most of the stuff I researched (caffeine, nicotine, niacinamide etc.) goes hand in hand with his research too.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...e-brain.17354/
So just to flesh this out. Putting aside the method of getting recovered (we all know what to do), but focusing on what the method addresses, do we need to stop inflammation of the pituitary to allow it to return to normal function which will restore 5ar1 in the CNS?Quote:
Originally Posted by TubZy
Or do we need to do both that and then restore 5ar in the CNS through the use of androsterone?
Useful information/opinion you just shared, thank you. This is what my pfs is as well, I believe 100%. Gonna add vit C to my protocol soon, what is your dose?