Above and beyond

Hey guys!

Pfs since mid april 2017, took finasteride 0,25mg twice daily for 3 weeks stopped cold turkey after strong sides: anxiety, brain fog, nipple growth/itch, muscle twitches, weight gain, puffy face, crazy high libido, slow speech, bad stress tolerance, lack of energy, sleep problems, loss of focus, confusion, personality changes, breath problems, hot rushes, emotional numbness, dizzines, fainting, stomach cramps, liver pain, food intolerance, bile pressure, roemheld syndrome. I also used nizoral and regenpuredr two dht blocking shampoos for 4 months. Crashed completly after also stopping them, by that i mean bed ridden for the whole october 2017.

Things slowly started to get better after i forced myself to lift weights and follow a clean paleo diet again with enough rest and sleep. I am 27, 182cm, 82kg with ~ 10‰ bf. My face lost fulness and the bones are more visibel. I weightlift since 14 and follow a specific diet ever since. After 8 months of improvement that got me to like 50% i crashed hard again because of a dht blocking shampoo i used unknowingly. It threw me in the worst place ever for 6 months, also developed tinnitus during the second crash.

As soon i was able to stand on my feet again went back to a clean paleo diet and weightlifting.
Mid 2018 found out about this site and the protocol, since then i started everything outlined here besides going all in with androsterone. I got 7 herbs.

My main sides that are still present at this time but noticable improved are anxiety, low energy, low confidence, tinnitus, bad sleep, lesser of a full face, smaller chawline, bad stress tolerance, low orgasm sensastion, cant hold errection long, low muscle fullnes/pump, lowish libido, anhedonia, lack of joy/happines, ever since crashing beard/body hair increased strangely.

I had a setback last week of a big watermelon i ate, the dht blocking lycopene in it affected me bad. My eyes are dry and stiff, have body balance problems and no morning wood again.

I tried twice 3mg androsterone and got calmness followed by a panick attack after a few hours. Can somebody relate to that?

Will give updates here on my recovery!

Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Fenugreek & other meds/herbs are the only 5AR you should worry about. Not in food.. if it’s under the diet on totalmaleoptimization.com then your good. Fruit is part of paleo.. soo Watermelons are not fucking you up dude.

Welcome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Samsemilia

Hey guys!

Pfs since mid april 2017, took finasteride 0,25mg twice daily for 3 weeks stopped cold turkey after strong sides: anxiety, brain fog, nipple growth/itch, muscle twitches, weight gain, puffy face, crazy high libido, slow speech, bad stress tolerance, lack of energy, sleep problems, loss of focus, confusion, personality changes, breath problems, hot rushes, emotional numbness, dizzines, fainting, stomach cramps, liver pain, food intolerance, bile pressure, roemheld syndrome. I also used nizoral and regenpuredr two dht blocking shampoos for 4 months. Crashed completly after also stopping them, by that i mean bed ridden for the whole october 2017.

Things slowly started to get better after i forced myself to lift weights and follow a clean paleo diet again with enough rest and sleep. I am 27, 182cm, 82kg with ~ 10‰ bf. My face lost fulness and the bones are more visibel. I weightlift since 14 and follow a specific diet ever since. After 8 months of improvement that got me to like 50% i crashed hard again because of a dht blocking shampoo i used unknowingly. It threw me in the worst place ever for 6 months, also developed tinnitus during the second crash.

As soon i was able to stand on my feet again went back to a clean paleo diet and weightlifting.
Mid 2018 found out about this site and the protocol, since then i started everything outlined here besides going all in with androsterone. I got 7 herbs.

My main sides that are still present at this time but noticable improved are anxiety, low energy, low confidence, tinnitus, bad sleep, lesser of a full face, smaller chawline, bad stress tolerance, low orgasm sensastion, cant hold errection long, low muscle fullnes/pump, lowish libido, anhedonia, lack of joy/happines, ever since crashing beard/body hair increased strangely.

I had a setback last week of a big watermelon i ate, the dht blocking lycopene in it affected me bad. My eyes are dry and stiff, have body balance problems and no morning wood again.

I tried twice 3mg androsterone and got calmness followed by a panick attack after a few hours. Can somebody relate to that?

Will give updates here on my recovery!

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See a gastro dude. I didn't know roemheld syndrome was a documented thing. I had that (as well as every other symptom you described) and was only getting worse until a gastro discovered some really messed up shit in my bowel. I started improving after the first colonoscopy

And ya, I had the exact same reaction to androsterone as you both times I used it.

Thats interesting, can i ask you how you doing these days in terms of recovery and what herbs do you like the most? I also dont tolerate mucuna and maca.

I think i will try androsterone in a higher dose twice daily sometime in the future.

Roemheld syndrome is going on with pfs because 5ar increases in the stomach and bile the digestive fluid to break down food! I had such strong gas it put pressure on my chest where it triggerd a nerve connected to the heart, i thought i would die a heart attack went 3 times to a cardiologist they found nothing. I didnt even know this condition existed. After a few months increasing 5ar with weightlifting it went away completly. Now again it came back slightly because of that shitty watermelon.

Good to see you Rick you are an inspiration, you gave me hope in the past with your progress and mindest.

I would say it depends on the current baseline of someone to handel 5ar reducing foods better or worse even though its paleo. The amount of lycopene in a watermelon is by far the highest than any other food u can find especially if you consider the weight of that fruit.

A few hours after eating it, the cramp in my prostate and pressure on the balls followed by stiches in the head of dick is something i remember from finasteride. Dry eyes are a thing when 5ar activity goes down.
It effected me, the next days/weeks will tell how hard.

I dont want to scare anyone but i would keep an eye on 5ar reducing food if you are not stabel yet.

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Originally Posted by RickTheRuler

Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Fenugreek & other meds/herbs are the only 5AR you should worry about. Not in food.. if it’s under the diet on totalmaleoptimization.com then your good. Fruit is part of paleo.. soo Watermelons are not fucking you up dude.

Welcome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The weight of watermelon is from the.......water.

But yeah, for the most part fruit is not going to fuck you up man. What did you eat BEFORE you ate the watermelon?

Reason I ask is because when I lived in the Panamanian jungle for four months, a large part of my diet was watermelon when I was on my raw food stint. The thing with foods such as that, and melons in general, is they digest super quick. If you had a typical meal before hand and then had a shit ton of watermelon, the problems that arise is the food you ate before hand is still being digested where as the watermelon is already done....this causes problems in the digestive chain of command...gas, bloating, reflux, sour stomach, etc. This is because the digested watermelon is made to "wait it's turn" and the fruit sugars start to ferment.

Most people don't realize this when they are having fruit for dessert, or after a meal. Alot of people will say I can't eat that because it fucks me up, when in reality, the can eat it had they not eaten it after a regular meal.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The weight of watermelon is from the.......water.

But yeah, for the most part fruit is not going to fuck you up man. What did you eat BEFORE you ate the watermelon?

Reason I ask is because when I lived in the Panamanian jungle for four months, a large part of my diet was watermelon when I was on my raw food stint. The thing with foods such as that, and melons in general, is they digest super quick. If you had a typical meal before hand and then had a shit ton of watermelon, the problems that arise is the food you ate before hand is still being digested where as the watermelon is already done....this causes problems in the digestive chain of command...gas, bloating, reflux, sour stomach, etc. This is because the digested watermelon is made to "wait it's turn" and the fruit sugars start to ferment.

Most people don't realize this when they are having fruit for dessert, or after a meal. Alot of people will say I can't eat that because it fucks me up, when in reality, the can eat it had they not eaten it after a regular meal.

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wouldn't that be an arguement against carb backloading then? I did feel pretty gross pounding down organic cookies and chips yesterday post gym after my regular meals

Ate watermelon almost daily for 4 weeks after crash. Still do often.
The only thing you could somewhat be concerned about are maybe tomatoes. But unless you juice like 5 of them it shouldnt matter aswell.

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Originally Posted by jacknap

wouldn't that be an arguement against carb backloading then? I did feel pretty gross pounding down organic cookies and chips yesterday post gym after my regular meals

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Not at all.

Fruits are natural, simple sugars. These types of sugars are basically usuable by the bodies cells as soon as they are absorbed through the mouth and tongue.

Backloading is done with complex carbohydrates. Completely different animal.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Not at all.

Fruits are natural, simple sugars. These types of sugars are basically usuable by the bodies cells as soon as they are absorbed through the mouth and tongue.

Backloading is done with complex carbohydrates. Completely different animal.

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oh damn so chips / ice cream / chocolate doesn't count for backloading? I get healthier health food store versions of these IE vanilla grass fed buffalo yogurt but I think that's closer to simple sugaar right? (I only started this now that i'm recovered before I just used white rice and sweet potatoes)

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

when I lived in the Panamanian jungle for four months,

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Wait what??

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Originally Posted by jacknap

oh damn so chips / ice cream / chocolate doesn't count for backloading? I get healthier health food store versions of these IE vanilla grass fed buffalo yogurt but I think that's closer to simple sugaar right? (I only started this now that i'm recovered before I just used white rice and sweet potatoes)

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Wait? What? Lol. No....It definitely counts for backloading. You asked if watermelon was an argument against backloading.....I think there is a disconnect here....

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Originally Posted by DKnighten

Wait what??

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Lol.

Yeah...I interned at a fasting clinic there so that I could live the rawfood lifestyle and not get distracted and tempted with normal everyday things....It was also where I did my third, 21 day water fast.

That's the short version of a long story.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Wait? What? Lol. No....It definitely counts for backloading. You asked if watermelon was an argument against backloading.....I think there is a disconnect here....

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well watermelon is more simple sugar right and therefore ferments. ice cream is simple sugar too so wouldn't it ferment as well? you're saying like it would be good for backloading still despite the fermenting annoying shit?

one thing that I notice though is that I do IF and I fucking hate eating sometimes because it ruins my stamina. I like doing high energy shit and then after I eat I just wanna veg the fuck out 2-3 hours after lol

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Originally Posted by jacknap

well watermelon is more simple sugar right and therefore ferments. ice cream is simple sugar too so wouldn't it ferment as well? you're saying like it would be good for backloading still despite the fermenting annoying shit?

one thing that I notice though is that I do IF and I fucking hate eating sometimes because it ruins my stamina. I like doing high energy shit and then after I eat I just wanna veg the fuck out 2-3 hours after lol

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Ice cream sugars metabolize way different then fruit sugars do. Fruit sugars are immediately usable by the system as soon as they enter the mouth whereas because of the fat content of ice cream, it takes longer to digest and therefore doesn't cause the same issue.

Hey thanks CD for your input really apprecaite!

Update 20th August 2019:
I have been feeling better for a few weeks now after the watermelon sides went away. From there i saw improvement everywhere like my testosteron increased significantly! Better sugar control, fuller muscles, better pump, calmer, energy increased, harder/longer lasting errections but worser sleep tough.
Last couple of days i tried androsterone from idealabs 3mg twice again and this time no more panick and negative sides to report, i know its a very low dose but im scared shittles so thats that lol. I got randro now, i think about a cycle in the near future. Maybe 1 or 2 more months on the herbs...

Whats up guys it's been a while!
I'm doing alright. Things really improved around March this year, what really helped me was eating a specific diet i followed for a few months.
Now im not cured yet thats why i started androhard.
Im on day 4, started with 200mg. I think it's helping me. The thing i noticed is the stuff making me a bit nervous and sleep is getting worse but my mind is getting clearer, also my heartbeat is stronger and sometimes I will feel the heart working. Anyone can relate? I will keep taking it. Lets see in the next days how things will improve.

I have to disagree with CDnuts and RicktheRuler. There are fruits and veggies that are much higher in 5ari's than other fruits and veggies. Some of us see big set backs from them. I have been staying away from any foods that have these and have much more consistency in how I feel.

Take a look at the following two links I made that show foods that are higg in 5ari's, I can tolerate some of them, but others are really bad for me..Btw, just realized from that thread I made that its the watermelon seeds that are bad not, the actual fruit.

Deleted. There is no way in hell I'm directing ANYONE here to PH. Not gonna happen. And please be warned not to do it again.

CD-

[QUOTE=Moonman;65964]I have to disagree with CDnuts and RicktheRuler. There are fruits and veggies that are much higher in 5ari's than other fruits and veggies. Some of us see big set backs from them. I have been staying away from any foods that have these and have much more consistency in how I feel.

Take a look at the following two links I made that show foods that are higg in 5ari's, I can tolerate some of them, but others are really bad for me..Btw, just realized from that thread I made that its the watermelon seeds that are bad not, the actual fruit.[QUOTE]



Are you seriously that oblivious? I know for a fact, based on the amount of time you spend on this board and others, that you know we advise members here to avoid PH like the plague. Why? Because we understand that micromanaging the human body and visiting the anxiety-ridden shit show that is that board is more detrimental to our health and well being than a few fuckin’ coconuts and watermelons. That’s why we get better here and nobody gets better there. That’s why we’re seeing this shift in members this very moment. How many PH’ers are running pro hormones now? How many are finally acknowledging that dietary and lifestyle interventions are working? How many members who eat watermelon did you just freak out because the very chart you made was wrong?

I think I speak for most here that we have no problem including those from other forums, but please do not make this one that. It seriously pisses me off that you would direct someone here to there. And if you can’t understand my anger, then respect what I have to say and don’t do it again.

Edit: I just looked at your list – are you serious? I eat avocados every day. Coconut oil by the spoonful. Bananas? Olive oil? Nuts? What in the hell do you eat on a daily basis?

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Originally Posted by Ratchet

Are you seriously that oblivious? I know for a fact, based on the amount of time you spend on this board and others, that you know we advise members here to avoid PH like the plague. Why? Because we understand that micromanaging the human body and visiting the anxiety-ridden shit show that is that board is more detrimental to our health and well being than a few fuckin’ coconuts and watermelons. That’s why we get better here and nobody gets better there. That’s why we’re seeing this shift in members this very moment. How many PH’ers are running pro hormones now? How many are finally acknowledging that dietary and lifestyle interventions are working? How many members who eat watermelon did you just freak out because the very chart you made was wrong?

I think I speak for most here that we have no problem including those from other forums, but please do not make this one that. It seriously pisses me off that you would direct someone here to there. And if you can’t understand my anger, then respect what I have to say and don’t do it again.

Edit: I just looked at your list – are you serious? I eat avocados every day. Coconut oil by the spoonful. Bananas? Olive oil? Nuts? What in the hell do you eat on a daily basis?

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Cheers man not gonna lie this freaked me out cause I've been smashing in the pistachios recently hahaha

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Originally Posted by Ratchet

Are you seriously that oblivious? I know for a fact, based on the amount of time you spend on this board and others, that you know we advise members here to avoid PH like the plague. Why? Because we understand that micromanaging the human body and visiting the anxiety-ridden shit show that is that board is more detrimental to our health and well being than a few fuckin’ coconuts and watermelons. That’s why we get better here and nobody gets better there. That’s why we’re seeing this shift in members this very moment. How many PH’ers are running pro hormones now? How many are finally acknowledging that dietary and lifestyle interventions are working? How many members who eat watermelon did you just freak out because the very chart you made was wrong?

I think I speak for most here that we have no problem including those from other forums, but please do not make this one that. It seriously pisses me off that you would direct someone here to there. And if you can’t understand my anger, then respect what I have to say and don’t do it again.

Edit: I just looked at your list – are you serious? I eat avocados every day. Coconut oil by the spoonful. Bananas? Olive oil? Nuts? What in the hell do you eat on a daily basis?

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by Ratchet

Are you seriously that oblivious? I know for a fact, based on the amount of time you spend on this board and others, that you know we advise members here to avoid PH like the plague. Why? Because we understand that micromanaging the human body and visiting the anxiety-ridden shit show that is that board is more detrimental to our health and well being than a few fuckin’ coconuts and watermelons. That’s why we get better here and nobody gets better there. That’s why we’re seeing this shift in members this very moment. How many PH’ers are running pro hormones now? How many are finally acknowledging that dietary and lifestyle interventions are working? How many members who eat watermelon did you just freak out because the very chart you made was wrong?

I think I speak for most here that we have no problem including those from other forums, but please do not make this one that. It seriously pisses me off that you would direct someone here to there. And if you can’t understand my anger, then respect what I have to say and don’t do it again.

Edit: I just looked at your list – are you serious? I eat avocados every day. Coconut oil by the spoonful. Bananas? Olive oil? Nuts? What in the hell do you eat on a daily basis?

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Couldn't have said it better myself Ratchet. I've also been going heavy on the pistachios TWW which are absolutely fine. I don't understand what that guys game is. He has already been called out for saying he doesn't believe anything in this forum yet he comes with this fear mongering bs.

Posts like that are exactly the reason I left PH. Constant nitpicking of foods that are supposedly bad for you left me thinking what the hell can I consume and obviously if something isn't sitting well with you it's best to drop it and try it down the line similar with coffee.

@Ratchet Well said, also glad someone calls it out

I go even more against the grain cuz I belive that actually exposing your body to those compounds is helpful. It just depends in what state your body is to what degree you can do it.

In my opinion it really depends on how stable you are to eat these foods. Meaning a sufficient 5ar activity. After my diet change i made significant improvements and since a few months I went back to the classic paleo diet and now i tolerate it just fine. I was a extreme case of pfs in the past and i can tell you guys 100% some 5ari foods really affected me badly. I really stand behind this statement. I was not making stuff up in my earlier post. Maybe the guy is still miserable and is really seeing a difference in stuff he eats. I disliked the crosslinking to ph tho.

Yeah, no way in hell I’m clicking those links. I really love this community, everyone is hellbent on recovering and know for a fact we can do it. I’m personal proof because I’m doing better than ever after that cycle. I also smash watermelon, avocado and pistachios on the daily. To be fair, I tried turmeric (5ari) not long ago for inflammation and started seeing double. So it clearly had a negative impact on me, weird stuff. Not from foods though, food sensitivities are gone.

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Originally Posted by Ratchet

Are you seriously that oblivious? I know for a fact, based on the amount of time you spend on this board and others, that you know we advise members here to avoid PH like the plague. Why? Because we understand that micromanaging the human body and visiting the anxiety-ridden shit show that is that board is more detrimental to our health and well being than a few fuckin’ coconuts and watermelons. That’s why we get better here and nobody gets better there. That’s why we’re seeing this shift in members this very moment. How many PH’ers are running pro hormones now? How many are finally acknowledging that dietary and lifestyle interventions are working? How many members who eat watermelon did you just freak out because the very chart you made was wrong?

I think I speak for most here that we have no problem including those from other forums, but please do not make this one that. It seriously pisses me off that you would direct someone here to there. And if you can’t understand my anger, then respect what I have to say and don’t do it again.

Edit: I just looked at your list – are you serious? I eat avocados every day. Coconut oil by the spoonful. Bananas? Olive oil? Nuts? What in the hell do you eat on a daily basis?

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You may have misread my post. The point is not to avoid all of those foods at all costs. The point is to understand which ones have potential to cause you issues and then look at potentially avoiding the certain ones that trigger you. As this other guy said, watermelon definitely affects him. So now he can have an idea why it affects him poorly. I still eat 50% of those foods from the list, because my body can handle them. But some of those that one PFSers body can handle, another PFSer might not be able to.

I can tell you 100%, that by avoiding certain foods that I see on this list that historically set me back, my days are WAYYYY more consistent with way less yo yoing back and forth. Its actually just common sense though. If a drug or herb that inhibits 5ar caused you to crash, why in the hell would you want to eat tons of food and herbs that inhibit 5ar!?

If your mind is so weak that you can't even visit a website, well then, I advise you to not visit that website. But if you are mentally strong and stoic enough to do so an understand how to take the good and leave out the bad then more power to that person. That is, after all, part of CDnuts protocol. Being positive and stoic does not mean burrying your head in the sand.

PH has 7,000 users. This forum has 700 total threads. PH is going to has that much more trash and negativity because it that much bigger. Its just like real life. Once you enter the big city you have to focus on the positive and be cultured enough to know that most people like to focus on the negative.

What a bunch of bs. PH isn't trash cuz there are many people. It's trash cause they actively try to hide recoveries and downtalk everything that seems to help individuals, the whole administration is a psychopathic shitfiesta.

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Originally Posted by Moonman

You may have misread my post. The point is not to avoid all of those foods at all costs. The point is to understand which ones have potential to cause you issues and then look at potentially avoiding the certain ones that trigger you. As this other guy said, watermelon definitely affects him. So now he can have an idea why it affects him poorly. I still eat 50% of those foods from the list, because my body can handle them. But some of those that one PFSers body can handle, another PFSer might not be able to.

I can tell you 100%, that by avoiding certain foods that I see on this list that historically set me back, my days are WAYYYY more consistent with way less yo yoing back and forth. Its actually just common sense though. If a drug or herb that inhibits 5ar caused you to crash, why in the hell would you want to eat tons of food and herbs that inhibit 5ar!?

If your mind is so weak that you can't even visit a website, well then, I advise you to not visit that website. But if you are mentally strong and stoic enough to do so an understand how to take the good and leave out the bad then more power to that person. That is, after all, part of CDnuts protocol. Being positive and stoic does not mean burrying your head in the sand.

PH has 7,000 users. This forum has 700 total threads. PH is going to has that much more trash and negativity because it that much bigger. Its just like real life. Once you enter the big city you have to focus on the positive and be cultured enough to know that most people like to focus on the negative.

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Well that depends on what is allowed to run rampant over there. That's not going to happen here. It has nothing to do with being stoic or any of that. PH is a cesspool. We've ALL been there and have no need for ANYTHING posted on that site. We have everything we need right here.

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Originally Posted by Bankai9000

What a bunch of bs. PH isn't trash cuz there are many people. It's trash cause they actively try to hide recoveries and downtalk everything that seems to help individuals, the whole administration is a psychopathic shitfiesta.

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Pretty much.....lol. Any place that tries to hide the truth has NO business being here.